Feb 12 2006
Writing Tips for Non-Writers Who Don’t Want to Work at Writing
A writing question:
What writing tips would you whisper to those who aren’t aspiring professionals, but would like to write better? If I asked you about losing weight and you said “Diet and Exercise” you’d be a) correct and b) ignored. So no ideas that take work. We want the quick fix! Tips like “Edit your work” aren’t useful. “Gerunds are your friend” are.
So, the task here: Tell y’all how to write better without you actually having to make an effort. Fine. Here’s how I would do it.
(NB: These work pretty well for people who do want to be pro writers, too.)
0. Speak what you write: This is rule zero because all other rules follow on this. Basically: If what you’re writing is hard to speak, what makes you think it’s going to be easy to read? It won’t be. So speak out loud what you write. If you can’t speak it naturally, rewrite it. Simple.
1. Punctuate, damn you: For God’s sake, is it really so hard to know where to put a comma? When people read, even in their brains, there’s usually some part of them that is sounding out the words. Without appropriate punctuation, especially commas, that word-speaking part will eventually choke on the sentence. Having said that, there’s a tendency to over-punctuate as well, particularly with exclamation points. Too little punctuation makes it seem you want to collapse someone’s lung, too much makes it look like you’re a 14-year-old girl writing an IM. You want to avoid both.
Here’s a quick and dirty guide when to use punctuation:
Periods: When you’re writing down a thought and you’re at the end of that thought, put a period.
Commas: When you’re writing down a thought and you want to take a breath, whether mental or physical, put in a comma.
Semi-colon: Put these in your writing in the place where, in conversation, you’d arch your eyebrow or make some other sort of physical gesture signalling that you want to emphasize a point.
Colon: Use when you want to make an example of something: For example, just like this.
Question Mark: Quite obviously, when you have a question.
Exclamation point: When you’re really excited about something. You almost never need to use more than one in a paragraph. Use more than one in a sentence and you damn well better be using it for humorous and/or ironic effect.
Dashes: You can use these when you’ve already used a colon or a semi-colon in a sentence, but be aware that if you have more than one colon or semi-colon in a sentence, you’re probably doing something wrong.
Somewhat related: Use capitals when you should (beginning of sentences, proper nouns), don’t use them when you shouldn’t (pretty much every other time). Lots of people think not using capitals makes them look arty and cool, but generally it just makes the rest of us wonder if you’ve not yet figured out the magical invention known as the shift key. Alternately, the random appearance of capitals in inappropriate places makes us wonder if you don’t secretly wish the Germans won World War II (and even the Germans are cracking down on wanton capitalization these days, so there you are).
2. With sentences, shorter is better than longer: If a sentence you’re writing is longer than it would be comfortable to speak, it’s probably too long. Cut it up. This is one I’m guilty of ignoring; I tend to use semi-colons when I should be using periods. In fact, I’d say the largest single editing task I have after writing a piece is to go in and turn semi-coloned sentences into two sentences (or more, God forgive me).
Shorter is also better with paragraphs, but there’s such a thing as too short: Take a look at a not-particularly-well-edited newspaper and you’ll see a lot of single-sentence paragraphs, generally preceded or followed by other single-sentence paragraphs that should have been compressed into one paragraph. Good rule: One extended idea or discrete event per paragraph.
3. Learn to friggin’ spell: I’m not talking typos here, because everyone makes them, and I make more than most. I mean genuine “gosh I really don’t know how this is spelled” mistakes. This is particularly the case with basic spelling errors like using “your” when you’re supposed to be using “you’re” or “its” for “it’s” (or in both cases, vice-versa). Here’s a good rule of thumb: For every spelling error you make, your apparent IQ drops by 5 points. For every “there, they’re, their” type of mistake you make, your apparent IQ drops by 10 points. Sorry about that, but there it is.
What’s truly appalling is that even people with advanced degrees (I’m looking at you, scientists) screw these particular pooches. I look at some of the writing I see from people with MAs and PhDs after their names and I think no wonder China’s poised to kick our ass.
Look, spelling isn’t hard. Nearly every single computerized writing tool has a built-in spellcheck that will catch 90% of your spelling errors, and as for the rest of them, well, it isn’t too much to ask adults to know the difference between “their” and “there.” It’s really not.
Also, here’s a handy tip for those of you with Internet access (which, by definition, would be all of you reading this on my site). If you have a word, the spelling of which you’re not sure, and you don’t have a dictionary handy (either bound or online), copy the word, paste it into Google’s search engine, and hit “search.” If you’ve spelled it incorrectly, chances are really excellent that when your search results come up, up at the top Google will ask “Did you mean:” and present whatever word it is that you’re failing to spell. There’s no shame in doing this.
Bottom line: Typos aside, there’s no reason not to spell things correctly (and you really should get on those typos, too, although I note that I’m the last person in the world to ride folks on that one).
Related to this:
4. Don’t use words you don’t really know: It’s nice to use impressive words from time to time, but if you use an impressive word incorrectly, everyone who does know what the word means will think of you as a pathetic, insecure dork. I’m just saying. Bear in mind that this is not limited only to “impressive” Latinate words, but also (indeed especially) to slang. Use slang incorrectly — or even use last year’s word — and you’ll look like teh 1am3r. Unless you’re using the slang ironically, in which case you might be able to get away with it.
But generally: stick to words you know you know, or make real good friends with that there dictionary thingie.
5. Grammar matters, but not as much as anal grammar Nazis think it does: The problem with grammar is that here in the US at least, schools do such a horrible job of teaching the subject that most people are entirely out to sea regarding correct usage. It’s the calculus of liberal arts subjects. But grammar need not be stupendously complicated; in the final reduction the point of grammar is to make the language as clear to as many people as possible. Frankly, I think if most non-writers can manage to get agreement between their verb and their subject, I’m willing to spot them the whole “who/whom” conundrum.
Now, obviously, you should know as much grammar as you can; the more grammar you know, the better you can write. But the bottom line is just this: Be as clear as possible. If you’re not confident about the grammar of a sentence, re-write it and strive for clarity. Yes, it’s possible that in doing so the resulting sentence will lack style or something. But it’s better to be plain and understood than to have people admire your style and have not the slightest idea what you’re trying to say.
6. Front-load your point: If you make people wade through seven paragraphs of unrelated anecdotes before you get to what you’re really trying to say, you’ve lost. Yes, Mark Twain and Garrison Keillor pull that stunt all the time. But: Surprise! You’re not them. Also, there were lots of times when Twain just needed to get to the goddamn point, already.
Now, sometimes people write to find out what their point is; I think that’s fine because I do that myself. But most of the time after I’ve figured out my point, I’ll go back and re-write. Because that’s the magic of writing: You can do that. It’s not actually a live medium. No, not even in IM, since you can still re-write before you hit “send.”
This point is more flexible than some of the others; sometimes you want to go the long way around to make your point because doing so makes the point stronger. I took the long way around in my “Being Poor” essay, for example. However, most of the time it’s better to let people know what you’re doing than not, if only because then you have a better chance of them sticking around until the end.
7. Try to write well every single time you write: I have friends who I know can write well who send me the most awful e-mail and IMs because they figure it doesn’t matter how many rules of grammar and spelling they stomp on because it’s just e-mail and IM. But if you actually want to be a better writer, you have to be a better writer every time you write. It won’t kill you to write a complete sentence in IM or e-mail, you know. The more you do it, the better you’ll get at it until it will actually be more difficult to write poorly in e-mail and IM than not (mobile text messaging I understand has more limitations. But I tend to look at text messaging as the 21st Century equivalent of semaphore, which is to say, specialized communication for specialized goals).
There really is no excuse for writing poorly in one’s blog. At least with IMs and e-mail your terrifying disembowelment of the language is limited to one observer. But in your blog, you’ll look stupid for the whole world to see, and it will be archived for as long as humanity remembers how to produce electricity. Maybe you don’t think anyone who reads your blog will care. But I read your blog — yes indeed I do — and I care. Madly. Truly. Deeply.
8. Read people who write well: Don’t just read for entertainment, but also look to see how they do their writing — how they craft sentences, use punctuation, break their prose into paragraphs, and so on. Doing so takes no more time than reading what they write anyway, and that’s something you’re doing already. If you can see what they’re doing, you can try to do it too. You probably won’t be able to re-create their style, since that’s something about that particular person. But what you can do is recreate their mechanics. Don’t worry that your own “voice” will get lost. Be readable first and your own style will come later, when you’re comfortable with the nuts and bolts of writing.
9. When in doubt, simplify: Worried you’re not using the right words? Use simpler words. Worried that your sentence isn’t clear? Make a simpler sentence. Worried that people won’t see your point? Make your point simpler. Nearly every writing problem you have can be solved by making things simpler.
This should be obvious, but people don’t like hearing it because there’s the assumption that simple = stupid. But it’s not true; indeed, I find from personal experience that the stupidest writers are the ones whose writing is positively baroque in form. All that compensating, you know. Besides, I’m not telling you to boil everything down to “see spot run” simplicity. I am telling you to make it so people can get what you’re trying to say.
Ultimately, people write to be understood (excepting Gertrude Stein and Tristan Tzara, who were intentionally being difficult). Most people are, in fact, capable of understanding. Therefore, if you can’t make people understand what you write, most of the time it’s not just because the world is filled with morons, it’s also because you are not being clear. Downshift. People will be happy to know what you’re saying.
10. Speak what you write: Yes, I’ve covered this before. But now after all the other tips you can see why this makes sense. If you can’t make your writing understandable to you, you can’t make it understandable to others.
And now I’m off to speak this to myself. If I can do it with my writing, you can do it with yours.
Read Stephen King’s _On Writing_, or whatever it’s called.
Read Stephen King’s _On Writing_, or whatever it’s called. His style is pretty basic, and it’s good to learn to write directly and clearly before trying to put “style” into it. He’ll help teach you how.
Write. The more you write, the better you get at it. It’s a learnable skill, like many others.
Most people can use a keyboard. That’s not the same as typing. If you can’t type, it’s a heckuva useful skill to have. Learn to type (or “keyboard”, as some call it nowadays).
John Scalzi’s School for Children Who Can’t Read Good
Read Strunk and White’s Elements of Style. Of course, they emphasize a grammar idea that Mr. Scalzi (and many other writers) do not, as it’s more a matter of style than a straight rule: commas after every single clause, even the last one.
According to them, “The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe” would be incorrect. It should be “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.” The first way makes it sound like “the Witch and the Wardrobe” are one clause, as if the witch and the wardrobe are in cahoots, somehow.
As an editor, I’m always interested in seeing what advice writers give, but I’m also often nervous. When I was editing a specialty magazine, there was someone who gave writing workshops and often encouraged people to send their writing to us. I don’t recall ever being able to publish something he sent our way.
So, a couple of tips about your tips:
Exclamation points. If a non-writer is looking for writing tips, well, better advice would be “Don’t use them. Just don’t. You’ll be better off for it. It’s always possible to find another way to indicate that you are excited.” If a professional writer is looking for a tip, then I’d say, “Use an exclamation point with an imperative, but not otherwise.”
Spelling. I totally agree with looking things up. But just Googling isn’t always the best way to do it. At least one dictionary (American Heritage, available online at dictionary.com), gives typos as the plural for typo.
Uh, guys, I suspect that asking people to read an entire book qualifies as work.
Typoes/typos: I imagine it’s fluid, as I’ve seen both. However, in my experience using Google in this way has been pretty useful.
I forgot to put the whole thing in before. That should have read,
“The John Scalzi Center For Children Who Can’t Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too.”
Thankfully the original picture required little alteration.
Bah, Elements of Style is 105 pages (including the index!) and fits quite easily in one’s pocket. It’s a tiny (surprisingly entertaining) read.
Google is very useful because it’s not a dictionary, it just bases its recommendations on what people are searching for. So, in essence, it’s a better source to find out how people actually write and speak. For instance, it won’t correct you when you search for “alright,” and rightly so, because everyone uses it.
Shky:
“For instance, it won’t correct you when you search for ‘alright,’ and rightly so, because everyone uses it.”
I don’t. That’s one of my “you lose 5 apparent IQ points” words. Actually, it should be one of the “10 IQ point” words, because it’s a common enough phrase that there’s no excuse not to spell it correctly, Google notwithstanding. It’s like using “nite” for “night” (which Google doesn’t catch, either — clearly Google should be used for less-common words).
“Everyone,” in this context, would refer to those who do not make their living writing. Us “normies,” as they say.
I’d like to know why you don’t use it, though. “All right” and “alright” for most people have entirely different meanings. Multiple things that are correct or okay would be “all right,” whereas I am feeling “alright” today.
And, wacky enough, “typoes” is one of those “you lose 5 apparent IQ points” words for me!
I kid, of course.
Surprise, surprise, I checked out Elements of Style and it says “properly written as two words.”
This is me quietly backing away from the issue.
“I don’t. That’s one of my “you lose 5 apparent IQ points” words.”
Hmmm… I’ve been using that one for years, and it never occurred to me that it might be incorrect. Hey, it’s not like I have the WHOLE dictionary in my head. Although a check at http://www.dictionary.com accorded it as “nonstandard” as opposed to “wrong”, and indicated that it has been used by many authors over the last century.
Usage is how words eventually become “correct”, after all. If everyone held your attitude, we’d all still be speaking Middle English. In which case complying with your request for everyone to learn to spell would be just that. much. harder. :-)
“It’s nice to use impressive words from time, but”
…it’s even nicer to use impressive words from space. :)
(Sorry. Couldn’t resist.)
Don’t be afraid to
a) repeat words that really are the words you want to use, rather than using a thesaurus to give your writing ‘variety’.
b) use ’said’ without qualification (said viciously, said in a whisper) 3 times out of 4. Or even 7 times out of 8. Or even all the time if you can manage it.
I don’t necessarily deduct IQ points for “alright,” but I wince every time I see it, and I’ve never thought of it as an acceptable alternate spelling. But then, I really don’t see it that much* - certainly not enough to get any sense that it carries different connotations than “all right” (except for the connotations of bad grammar, of course).
*Maybe it’s a geographical thing?
‘Exclaimation’?
Exclamation!
Completely unverifiable anecdotal evidence (though I assure you that it is true):
I see ‘alright’ much more than I see ‘all right.’ So much so that I find it jarring when I come across it (much like one is when one sees ‘to’ in place of ‘too’).
May I also add that this page:
http://www.bartleby.com
can be a writer’s (or non-writer’s) best friend? It’s a one-stop shop for any reference book you’d need, including dictionaries, usage, and Strunk’s Style. It has saved me many an embarrassing error.
Exclaimation: Typo! Yeah, that’s it. It’s fixed.
Chagrined to see the alright discussion, as that’s a word in my regular usage vocabulary. Resisting the urge to see if I lost 5 IQ points when I was guest-posting. Oxford American also (or is that “all so”?) calls it a variant.
My tip: after writing anything longer than one page in length, see if your opening is made clearer by deleting the entire first paragraph. Frequently, I find that I was just clearing my throat and my real first good sentence is in paragraph 2.
[applause] (well, except for the alright thing - some things may be okay to *say* but they look appalling written and that’s one of them…)
I think that today’s generation, with the whole texting thing, is a lost cause about learning spelling. Who cares about knowing how to spell when you can get away with completely illiterate looking text - but your homies understand, anyway, and who else needs to? It always makes me shudder, personally, but then I’m over forty and officially an old fogey who considers correct spelling (or as much of it as you can manage, anyway) to be not only courtesy but a basic function of literacy. Probably those up-thread who say that making some people actually read a book would be too much like hard work have a point - when you’re surrounded by SMS and texting actually reading *ENGLISH* can be a tad difficult…
The comment about ’said’ reminds me of this old chestnut:
http://www.grit-page.net/bf/cg/sflexicon.txt
It’s a piece of literary freeware by Bruce Sterling that has been around for quite some time now. (I think I first encountered it in 1999.) It has this to say about the word ’said’: That it is one of the invisible words in English and almost impossible to overuse.
“I think that today’s generation, with the whole texting thing, is a lost cause about learning spelling.”
People keep saying that. I suspect it’s more that IM/email/blogging/etc make the poor grammar of a large segment of the population more evident, not that younger generations are necessarily less literate. Which isn’t to say that literacy levels couldn’t be massively improved, but I haven’t seen any data to convince me things have gotten significantly worse.
For what it’s worth, I am a member of the younger generation in question, and most of the people in my age-cohort I know online are pretty darned literate. But that doesn’t mean much statistically.
I’m a big fan of googlefight.com. Just type in the two words or phrases you want to compare, and googlefight tells you how many times each is found. For example, it reports 22.2 million hits for typos and 55,800 for typoes (it’s just an example; I don’t have a dog in this fight). Of course, googlefight is no better than Google is, but at least when it misleads you, it does so in a very entertaining way.
It seems I may be a bit late to the party on this one, but I still say, “Amen, brother!” (And, that’s the only exclamation I’ll use.)
One of my greatest pet peeves is the misuse of “their,” “they’re,” and “there.” Also “to,” “two,” and “too.” The distinction isn’t really that difficult.
Another one that I’ve seen with reasonable frequency lately is “prolly” in place of “probably.” Seriously. Do those who use “prolly” think that it’s cute, or are they just idiots? Either way, I deduct 50 points for that one.
Good advice, and I’ll try to keep it in mind. English being my second language, I’m sure I will need more work than most native speakers to make it fluid and good, but I’ll get there someday.
Everything follows from experience when it comes to writing. That is, if one understands writing as a process and not as an event; composition is not writing. Rewriting is not writing. These are phases in the process, the most visible even, but not the entire constituency of elements that inform and shape the thing.
Reading books on writing is a lot like masturbation.
Know the rules. Know how they work, what they do, what their limits are. Study them until they become first — not second! — nature. Strunk & White is good; WORDS INTO TYPE or THE CHICAGO MANUAL OF STYLE is better. Never break the rules until you understand them fully.
Don’t pontificate in the comments section of someone else’s journal….
The rules are neat. I generally agree with them.
Anghara:
I highly doubt bad grammar in email, IM or texting has any effect whatsoever on literacy, since most people have a well-documented ability to code-switch in various situations. The people who can type an email in fluent annoying teen may also be able to write perfectly fine essays in English class, just as many teens (and adults) speak differently with their friends than they would at, for example, a formal dinner.
When I was teaching creative writing at a high school last year, I did have some students who would write “nite” instead of “night” or “4″ instead of “for,” but such instances only tended to occur if A) it was an informal freewriting exercise that I asked them to turn in afterward, or B) the student in question also ignored all the other parameters of the assignment, and had just scrawled a couple paragraphs in pencil during their previous class. The high school where I was teaching had very priveleged students, so I don’t know if this pattern would hold in other environments, but I imagine at my mother’s school, for instance, where a significant portion of the population is ESL, the primary source of grammar issues would be derived from that, rather than vernacular in texting or email.
Burns!:
I think prolly is just straight-up slang.
The only way I can get myself to put commas in the right place, is to read my stuff in my head. When I find myself mentally choking, I know it’s time for one. Now, of course, I’m trying really hard to ensure I have them placed properly, as I don’t want to look like a moron. There, that, should, do, it.
Assuming you can’t cut it as a writer, there is always work out there for you.
Another Google tip: Instead of just typing in the word you’re trying to spellcheck, use ‘define:’ in front of it. This will usually return several definitions of the word from various sites - if it comes back with no hits it’s a good sign you’ve misspelled the word.
One of the reasons I prefer e-mail to making a phone call is because I can spend a few extra moments proofreading my thoughts before sending them on their way. I only wish more people would consider doing the same. If you can’t understand what you just wrote, how can you expect someone else to have any clue what you’re talking about?
I remember when I used to use ‘prolly’ when I talked to friends online. That was a few years now, I think. On the very rare occassion I use it when I’m speaking.As someone from the younger generation I’m slightly amused at this conversation. Almost all of my friends, both online and offline, are literate. I’ve always wondered if it has to do with the self-esteem issues we all seem to have. After all, the only people I know who use ‘lol’ and such (’wtf’ not included), are the people who in reality consider themselves to be smarter than the average person.Recently I’ve been wondering if our self esteem issues are WHY we try and have at least decent grammar and spelling abilities. When you look down on yourself, wouldn’t being able to spell make you look at yourself in at least a slightly better light?On the subject of to, two, and too: Every time I see someone use one of them wrong I jump on them and correct them. I’m not a grammar nazi, but seriously. Learn to use two, too, and to correctly! And 2 is NOT a substitute for at least two of them, and in some cases not a substitute for any!And now I end this before I really start to rant (and trust me, I doubt you want to see that!)
And now I think I have just learned the reason for rules 0 and 10. I definitely must start doing that from now on, or at least re-read what I’ve written, to make sure that I haven’t repeated myself. Or made terrible grammar mistakes (which are actually much worse than the repitition).
The fundamental no-work writing tip for the Macintosh: Command-Control-D. It pops up the Oxford American Dictionary on whatever word your cursor happens to be sitting on.
The same dictionary lives in a Dashboard widget, too. That, the Wikipedia widget, and the calculator are the three I actually use.
Burns!: I use “prolly” on the rare occasion that I’d say it out loud, were I saying what I’m typing out loud. I’m less strict about pronunciation than I am about spelling, and sometimes I want that to show in my typing. (Hence why I ever type “Oh ayuh”.)
essential reading for aspiring writers from scalzi
John Scalzi has a couple of must-read posts for aspiring writers that I meant to link to over the weekend: Writing Tips for Non-Writers Who Don’t Want To Work at Writing filters the best of On Writing through Strunk White,
essential reading for aspiring writers from scalzi
John Scalzi has a couple of must-read posts for aspiring writers that I meant to link to over the weekend: Writing Tips for Non-Writers Who Don’t Want To Work at Writing filters the best of On Writing through Strunk White,
For what it’s worth: “alright” = 37.5 million Google hits. “all right” = 2.8 billion hits. “allright” = 6.9 million hits, plus a message that says, “Did you mean: alright?” heh…
That aside, I actually have a question for the group on this topic (as a non-professional writer, I usually just lurk on these topics). I notice that John uses a lot of bold, italics and underlining in his posts, and I find that I do that in a lot of my online writing as well. So much so, in fact, that it has almost become a form of punctuation in and of itself.
What do folks think? Is it a function of the more modern text-generating devices we all use, or is it just a crutch? As with exclamation points, I think one could say that there’s always another way to show emphasis…
Another Mac tip that relates to 0 & 10 is to have the text to speech tool read it back to you. If you can listen to that voice reading it and not nod off, you have done well at writing it clearly. (Also handy for comparing drafts, and hearing thinkoes like ‘the the’ which the eye will miss).
On the IM point, I think that the advent of written casual conversation is a big cultural change, and that overall it will improve literacy - though I notice that those decrying a TV culture have switched to decrying an IM one.
When I see a gratuitous exclamation point, I flashback to old comic strips like Nancy! A character would say something mundane followed by a ! and accompanied by astonishment sweat (if you can’t picture it, see Cathy).
If a sentence is legitimately exciting, I barely notice the exclamation point. If the reader in my head hits the last word hard, the exclamation point is inappropriate. It’s the author’s lazy attempt to add excitement to a sentence that doesn’t deserve it. This is similar to laugh track abuse, where a situation comedy tries to make an unfunny comment funny by following it with guffaws.
How to write better in 10 easy steps
I just read a blog post by John Scalzi, entitled Writing Tips for Non-Writers Who Don’t Want to Work at Writing. It had some good tips, including the following great rule of thumb:For every spelling error you make, your apparent…
You forgot capitalization. Note the difference between “helping your uncle Jack off a horse” and “helping your uncle jack off a horse”.
No, capitalization is in the main piece. Go back and see. Moreover, I don’t have an uncle Jack.
Do you have a horse? ;)
Brian Greenberg:
I notice that John uses a lot of bold, italics and underlining in his posts, and I find that I do that in a lot of my online writing as well. So much so, in fact, that it has almost become a form of punctuation in and of itself.
So do I. I blame the influence of Tycho from Penny Arcade.
Thanks. These are really helpful suggestions.
I found that I became more strict about grammar the older I got. I end up using casual grammar deliberately, if I want to sound more bourgeois (thank you dictionary.com). “I need to find someone with whom to go” sounds a bit stuck up when compared to “I need to find someone to go with.” But the important thing, as a writer, is that I choose language deliberately.
A word on commas: I find that I sometimes over comma. I try to keep as sharp an eye on that as I do parenthasis. Everyone’s got thier Achilles heel, I suppose.
Finally, I would like to rant for a moment on something I picked up in forums. It’s incredibly irritating when someone states that they are too lazy to look up something. You’re on the Internet, for God’s sake! You are a Google away from knowing the name of a book or the third president or what have you. Don’t say, “You know, President What’s-His-Name…” It doesn’t improve the situation when you say “I’m sure I could look this up somewhere, but…” We got it. You’re lazy. Now write down whatever half-assed thing you wanted to say and save us the trouble of your excuses.
Whew! Thanks for the rant space. You may return to your regularly scheduled posts.
Umm, that should be “parenthesis.”
Sorry.
The “commas between each item in a list, including before the ‘and’ before the last one” rule appears to be a style change in the last 30 or so years. I was very specifically taught in grade school in the 80s that you did not put a comma there. (”Apples, pears and oranges.”) I know I’ve seen style books indicating skipping the last comma as correct. That particular style seems to be on the way out. It’s probably for better; it was inconsistant.
Good article, thanks for writing it and sharing it with the world for free. I will note a minor typo: your link to “Being Poor” is broken, you’re missing the “http://” in the front. Some browsers may try to autocorrect the mistake, but not all will.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?alright
One more tip: don’t ever use the phrase ‘begs the question’, in writing or while speaking. It doesn’t mean what you think it does, so it just makes you look like an idiot.
Re: Italics, I’ve always used them for emphasis, even before I wrote regularly on the Internet.
The serial comma (the comma before the last item in a list) is something I’m always fixing in things I edit. There’s a great story about how the lack of the comma can cause misunderstandings. “This book is dedicated to my parents, Ayn Rand and God.” The meaning of a sentence is sometimes changed by the omission of a serial comma, but it is never changed by including one, so the right thing to do is to always include it so your use will be consistent and thus below the level of conscious thought.
Putting commas in by where you pause when reading aloud is not a good enough apprximation, because people pause in all sorts of weird places when reading aloud. For example: “The only way I can get myself to put commas in the right place, is to read my stuff in my head.” There’s no need for a comma in that sentence. ;)
A “drops 10 IQ points” for me is the use of e.g. when i.e. is correct or vice versa. E.g. means “for example” and i.e. means “that is.” You use the former for examples and the latter for clarifications or elaborations. If you don’t know the Latin the abbreviations represent, maybe you shouldn’t use the abbreviations either.
John, may I request you make this article available in two media:
a) As a freakin’ big poster, for hanging in college dorm rooms and high-school English classes. (Opposed, of course, to high school English classes, which have a slightly different glazed look to them and far more Tostitos crumbs on the floor.)
b) As a tattoo stencil, for me to use on writers who have been told more than twice not to make one of the above mistakes in material they send me.
Thank you, sir. Or might I venture a “sir!” there?
Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you.
Strunk & White is an fine reference for usage questions. I prefer Joseph Williams’s Style: Ten Lessons in Clarity and Grace for issues of actual writing style.
Oh, hell yeah, John.
You touched on every one of my writing pet peeves. I’ve been teaching Communications for years, and I am still stunned at the ridiculous mistakes I keep seeing.
Thanks for the list. I may quote you.
With my blessings, Elaine.
You said This is particularly the case with basic spelling errors like using “your” when you’re supposed to be using “you’re” or “its” for “it’s” (or in both cases, vice-versa). Here’s a good rule of thumb: For every spelling error you make, your apparent IQ drops by 5 points. For every “there, they’re, their” type of mistake you make, your apparent IQ drops by 10 points. Sorry about that, but there it is.
That’s priceless. I am a writer too and one of my peeves as detailed on my website is people who don’t know the difference. I feel if you don’t know the difference between you’re and your, you ought not be writing. Dammit, Man.
Their are four errors in this sentence — if its to hard for you to find them, your an idiot. :)
(There ya’ go kiddies, have at that sentence)
Alright is alright. If two word are almost always used in succession then, over time, they become one word. It has happened countless times in the English language. Get over it. I’m not trying to be offensive here but it irks me when people are so stubborn about accepting natural language changes. If people like this had control of the language then we’d still be speaking in caveman grunts because they would never have let any evolutions occur. Language is a living thing. If you love it, set it free.
Josh:
“Alright is alright.”
No, “Alright” is poor spelling and a sign of ignorance of acceptable usage. As I am an editor from time to time, I get to say that. And if you want to sell your work to me (or indeed any other professional editor I can think of), you should spell “all right” correctly or at the very least be resigned to it being corrected in print before it gets published, because its idiot form is not going to see the light of day. It makes the editor look bad if it does. And we can’t have that.
Language evolves, yes, but there’s no reason those of us who work with words should allow it to evolve stupidly.
I had no idea “alright” wasn’t a word. None of my english/writing teachers have ever mentioned it. It belongs in the same lesson as “a lot, not alot.” Now I wonder if they even know it’s not a word. Thanks for the tip.
[Completely off-topic, but the Hate Mail Tips link is giving a 404 from the comment thread rules page. I had to find it here at archive.org: http://web.archive.org/web/20040603123539/http://scalzi.com/w020307.htm
You must NOT allow the Hate Mail Tips page to vanish from all but the Internet Wayback Machine. This is simply unacceptable. How in the world are people to write appropriate flames without that page? You, sir, are damaging society as we know it every second that page remains 404. I beg of you: restore it to its proper place. The world will be better off for it.]
It is, of course, important to be on-topic. Thus, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for assisting me in my pursuit of being able to write more gooderer. :-)
MV
[Completely off-topic, but the Hate Mail Tips link is giving a 404 from the comment thread rules page. I had to find it here at archive.org: http://web.archive.org/web/20040603123539/http://scalzi.com/w020307.htm
You must NOT allow the Hate Mail Tips page to vanish from all but the Internet Wayback Machine. This is simply unacceptable. How in the world are people to write appropriate flames without that page? You, sir, are damaging society as we know it every second that page remains 404. I beg of you: restore it to its proper place. The world will be better off for it.]
It is, of course, important to be on-topic. Thus, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for assisting me in my pursuit of being able to write more gooderer. :-)
MV
The hate mail entries are now here. Also, of course, they are in my upcoming book Your Hate Mail Will Be Graded. So rather than disappearing down the hole of the Internet Archive, they will disappear down the hole of the Library of Congress.
The hate mail entries are now here. Also, of course, they are in my upcoming book Your Hate Mail Will Be Graded. So rather than disappearing down the hole of the Internet Archive, they will disappear down the hole of the Library of Congress.
A few thoughts from CS Lewis:
First this:
1. Always try to use the language so as to make quite clear what you mean and make sure your sentence couldn’t mean anything else.
2. Always prefer the plain direct word to the long, vague one. Don’t implement promises, but keep them.
3. Never use abstract nouns when concrete ones will do. If you mean “More people died” don’t say “Mortality rose.”
4. In writing. Don’t use adjectives which merely tell us how you want us to feel about the thing you are describing. I mean, instead of telling us a thing was “terrible,” describe it so that we’ll be terrified. Don’t say it was “delightful”; make us say “delightful” when we’ve read the description. You see, all those words (horrifying, wonderful, hideous, exquisite) are only like saying to your readers “Please will you do my job for me.’
And then this:
- Turn off the Radio.
- Read all the good books you can, and avoid nearly all magazines.
-Always write (and read) with the ear, not the eye. You should hear every sentence you write as if it was being read aloud or spoken. If it does not sound nice, try again.
-When you give up a bit of work don’t (unless it is hopelessly bad) throw it away. Put it in a drawer. It may come in useful later. Much of my best work, or what I think my best, is the re-writing of things begun and abandoned years earlier.
-) Don’t use a typewriter. The noise will destroy your sense of rhythm, which still needs years of training.
“Language evolves, yes, but there’s no reason those of us who work with words should allow it to evolve stupidly.”
Then here’s an interesting question for you. Would you accept the word allright? What is your criteria for when a new usage becomes acceptable?
“Language evolves, yes, but there’s no reason those of us who work with words should allow it to evolve stupidly.”
Then here’s an interesting question for you. Would you accept the word allright? What is your criteria for when a new usage becomes acceptable?
Josh:
“Would you accept the word allright? What is your criteria for when a new usage becomes acceptable?”
No, “allright” doesn’t look good to me either.
I think new usage becomes acceptable because it offers a better use of a phrase or word or offers a vital new spin on the word. As an example, I wouldn’t object to the neologism “phat,” because it differs from its lexical parent in useful and significant ways: “phat beats” are different from “fat beats.”
“Alright” (or “allright”) offers no real improvement or variance from “all right”, and arose out banal illiteracy rather than a need to jam some new life into the phrase. All it offers is fewer letters/spaces, and that’s not enough to recommend it.
On the IM point, I think that the advent of written casual conversation is a big cultural change, and that overall it will improve literacy - though I notice that those decrying a TV culture have switched to decrying an IM one.
If, and only counterfactually if, anybody bothers to write correctly in IMs. John advocates it. I tend to do it… but I think that a lot of IMing and blogging has degraded writing correctness. Because people tend to read and write in those media in small, discrete, like-minded groups.
Language is fairly contagious for a lot of people. They pick up word-uses and dialects from exposure. Similarly, they pick up bad habits.If I spend too long in semiliterate places on the internet, I find myself typing horribly semiliterate things… most of the time I can fix them before they escape into the wild.
“UR Hawt, snd pics plz.” “U” as “you” is a contagious festering wound on English.
Pretty much the only time I’m likely to excuse that sort of broken “internet speak” is in real-time multiplayer games, where typing extra words and proof-reading can cost you.
My personal writing demon is the ellipsis. I am a devotee of writing as if I were speaking, and the ellipsis describes a certain sort of pause, without the grammatical weight of a comma. In the last year or so I’ve been doing a much better job of just deleting them from things I’ve written. It seems that the words are relatively clear without them. I still end up with ellipsis riddled IM-logs though. Because it’s very hard to tell jokes without some indicators of timing.
Why is that your criteria? “Can not” is no different than “cannot,” “everywhere” is no different than “every where,” and there are many more examples that could be cited. To me, as a layman, the criteria is a simple matter of numbers. If a word is used frequently enough, by enough people, for a long enough period of time, then it has automatically been voted an acceptable usage. You don’t have to like the word and you don’t have to like the criteria, but that is what truly makes a word acceptable. If you don’t agree with that criteria it doesn’t matter because as soon as you aren’t around anymore, you objection will have been silenced. In fact I just stumbled upon another example, “anymore” is no different than “any more.”
Why is that your criteria? “Can not” is no different than “cannot,” “everywhere” is no different than “every where,” and there are many more examples that could be cited. To me, as a layman, the criteria is a simple matter of numbers. If a word is used frequently enough, by enough people, for a long enough period of time, then it has automatically been voted an acceptable usage. You don’t have to like the word and you don’t have to like the criteria, but that is what truly makes a word acceptable. If you don’t agree with that criteria it doesn’t matter because as soon as you aren’t around anymore, you objection will have been silenced. In fact I just stumbled upon another example, “anymore” is no different than “any more.”
My pet peeve lately is the dropped ‘of’ after the word ‘couple’. “I only dropped a couple IQ points,” he said.
I have another point I would like to raise. Language has different functions in different settings. For instance, when IMing, the main function of the written word is to act as a stand in for the spoken word. Most people talk many more words per second then they could type while maintaining the same relaxed state of mind they would have in a spoken conversation. That is why, in my opinion, almost every type of variance is allowed in IM speech. Additionally, during a spoken conversation between friends there will be massive amounts of non spoken communication such as facial expressions, hand gestures and slaps on the back. Since IMing is designed to be similar to having a conversation between friends, then doing fun things with the written word is the means of replacing the communication that is missing by just having a written exchange. Different styles of communication are correct for different situations. It’s like saying that all spoken words should follow the same rules all the time, everywhere. If you are at a construction site then you would totally be in the wrong if you always went around saying things like “Excuse me, may I please have a wrench” because the primary function of language at a construction site is conveying meaning as quickly as possible, which means the most appropriate way to say the same thing at a construction site is to reach out your hand and say “Wrench!” A good example of what I mean is exemplified in what I am writing right now, at this moment. The primary function of the written language in an online forum post is to express one’s ideas in a timely fashion. The longer you take to post, the more likely your post will never be seen. The online post is meant to be relaxed, like a friendly conversation. Writing a response in this particular forum is much more taxing than in any other forum because I’m trying not to break any style rules too egregiously. It slows my whole post down and makes the process much less fun. To sum up, different situations make different types of communication styles not only allowed, but preferred.
In a related vein: Bob’s Quick Guide to the Apostrophe, You Idiots:
http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif
In a related vein: Bob’s Quick Guide to the Apostrophe, You Idiots:
http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif
Josh:
“If a word is used frequently enough, by enough people, for a long enough period of time, then it has automatically been voted an acceptable usage.”
There’s lots of “acceptable usage” that ain’t got no place in good writing, Josh. Don’t bother me none if you can’t tell no difference. I just won’t buy anything from you, and I doubt any other editor would, either. And as editors tend to train other editors, blithely assuming “all right” is going the way of the dodo isn’t going to work.
Neither, for that matter, is comparing the usage of “alright” to the usage of “anymore,” which has been in usage since at least the 14th century (i.e., before English had a largely standardized grammar, as it does now). Not to mention “everywhere” (13th century) and “cannot” (15th century). “Alright” didn’t show up until 1887, decades after “all right” was adjudged the acceptable usage and the English language as a whole was given a generally accepted vocabulary and grammar (all dates courtesy Merriam-Webster).
(The one place where it is generally acceptable in writing to use “alright” is when one is writing dialect or regionalisms in fiction, but that’s a specialized case, not a general one.)
That “alright” has been grammatically incorrect for 119 years rather undercuts your theory that it’s just a matter of time before the stuffy types die out and the word takes its rightful place in the pantheon of words by the acclamation of the masses.
As to your post following the one I responded to above: Well, Josh. If you intentionally make your writing difficult to read (say, by not inserting paragraph breaks in their logical places) you will naturally not be read. Clear writing is good writing.
As for “the longer you take to post, the more likely your post will never been seen,” you’ll need to back that up with some proof. Anecdotally I disagree; I have entries here that are still active — and still gaining comments — years after they were originally posted. Writing is asynchronous, as noted in the original post.
Josh, you’ll forgive me if I say that it seems you’re making an argument for bad writing simply because it’s easy and everyone is doing it. Well, bullshit on that.
The first thing that programers need to realize is that they are not like their endusers. This is an adage that’s been around the programmer community that really should see wider acceptance. If you are comparing the writing that happens in this forum with the writing that happens in 99% of other forums on the net then your world is sadly insular. I am not a regular visitor to this site and I doubt I will be here again once this thread is concluded, but I think that’s why my voice is especially important. I represent the “user,” the person who is not an editor or a writer but rather I am the person that much writing is written for. I am intelligent, college educated, and interested in the world. I read a lot, usually non fiction, and I represent the educated layman. My opinion, if you want to be a better writer or editor, should be listened to and seriously considered, not just shunned out of hand. You don’t have to think about the things I say, but you are really only hurting yourself.
The first thing that programers need to realize is that they are not like their endusers. This is an adage that’s been around the programmer community that really should see wider acceptance. If you are comparing the writing that happens in this forum with the writing that happens in 99% of other forums on the net then your world is sadly insular. I am not a regular visitor to this site and I doubt I will be here again once this thread is concluded, but I think that’s why my voice is especially important. I represent the “user,” the person who is not an editor or a writer but rather I am the person that much writing is written for. I am intelligent, college educated, and interested in the world. I read a lot, usually non fiction, and I represent the educated layman. My opinion, if you want to be a better writer or editor, should be listened to and seriously considered, not just shunned out of hand. You don’t have to think about the things I say, but you are really only hurting yourself.
“As for “the longer you take to post, the more likely your post will never been seen,” you’ll need to back that up with some proof. Anecdotally I disagree; I have entries here that are still active — and still gaining comments — years after they were originally posted. Writing is asynchronous, as noted in the original post.”
Okay, then how about this. The vast majority of people don’t enjoy thinking about correct style usage or proofreading. In an informal setting like a forum, most people are there to enjoy themselves or to learn about a particular topic. In either case, the more time spent thinking about whether what they’ve written is stylistically correct, they less time they have to enjoy themselves or to learn about their topic of interest. That alone is reason enough for forum posts to automatically fall into (not in to) a different much more relaxed style class. Listen, I don’t want to argue with you. I’m just here to tell you how the real world works as I see it. I could be wrong, but then again, so could you.
I agree with the point in the original post about writing well, always. Blogging is my main outlet for writing more and better, but I’ve even been known to look up words for use in IM conversations.
Scott: I definitely suffer from ellipsis-itis as well. It’s so tempting to throw it on the end of any old sentence, especially those ending paragraphs. (Even worse is the trailing thought in parenthesis…)
On Alright
Here it is again:
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?alright
John, why don’t you admit that you just don’t like the word and fall back on your, “I don’t have to have a good reason because this is my Web site” defense?
P.S. - Insert “trope” or “meme” in the previous sentence if you like those better.
P.P.S. - “Phat Beat” is a pretty weak example, and alright carries the connotation of “ok”, as opposed to “all right”, which of course literally means completely right.
I’m also getting a good laugh picturing John arguing usage with Gertrude Stein. “But I’m an *Editor*!” heh-heh-heh
I came over from Wil Wheaton’s blog to read this post and your agent FAQ post and found them both very interesting and helpful. Thanks for taking the time to write them. One of the main reasons I had to leave a comment though was to tell you how much I love the photos you have posted on your sidebar. They are just gorgeous!
Stephen, you couldn’t be more right about the word alright. Its meaning is totally different than “all right.” It is most often used to mean good but not great, as in “The movie wasn’t great, but it was alright.”
“The vast majority of people don’t enjoy thinking about correct style usage or proofreading. In an informal setting like a forum, most people are there to enjoy themselves or to learn about a particular topic. In either case, the more time spent thinking about whether what they’ve written is stylistically correct, they less time they have to enjoy themselves or to learn about their topic of interest.”
Actually, I believe it’s the opposite. When I’m in a forum I enjoy myself less when what I’m reading is filled with improper grammar and spelling. And I know that it’s the same for all of my friends, online or off.
Why? Because reading a post where you have to decipher what is written is time consuming and more than a little painful. I cringe every single time I see someone use ‘u’ instead of ‘you’, or ‘2′ instead of ‘to’ or ‘too’. When I see someone writing like that their perceived intelligence drops significantly.
Of course, this isn’t to say that I can’t understand when sometimes typing in shorthand can be useful, like in MMORPGs when you’re pressed for time, or when someone is joking around. But in casual IMs and (God forbid) forum posts?
If someone can’t take the time to write out a word, then I honestly don’t see why I should be conversing with said person. I don’t want my IQ to suffer, after all.
Apparently you didn’t read both of my posts. You are not most people.
No, I read them (although perhaps not thouroughly enough, since your lack of paragraph breaks hurts my head). And actually I agree, I’m not most people. Far from it actually.
However, I actually happen to be an active member in perhaps one of the largest forums on the net to date, Gaia Online. It’s a community geared towards anime and video game fans. At this moment it has over 3.25 million users, about 40 thousand of which are actually active or not simply mule accounts.
Guess what? The majority of the site is literate. I frequent at least a third of the forums on the site and in most of them it’s actually considered stupid to post using shorthand and 1337. Most users who do post as such get shunted to the Chatterbox which is composed almost completely of spam.
Oh, I can’t say that everyone outside of the Chatterbox has proper grammar (General Discussion can get pretty bad sometimes), but the majority of places do. On Gaia you usually get ignored you don’t speak properly.
In fact, I’d say about 70% of the users are literate. That’s 28,000 people.
I don’t know where you got the impression that I was specifically talking about 1337. I dismiss everything written in 1337 and don’t even bother reading it. In my opinion the only two places 1337 is acceptable is during live video game chats and mobile to mobile messaging because the settings there are as informal as humanly possible. No, I’m talking about people worrying about proper apostrophe use, the word “alright”, the your-you’re and their-there-they’re types, and if a person splits an infinitive or even down right misspells a simple word. The point is that in informal settings it is totally acceptable to use informal writing and the more informal the setting, the more informal the writing is allowed to be.
I don’t know where you got the impression that I was specifically talking about 1337. I dismiss everything written in 1337 and don’t even bother reading it. In my opinion the only two places 1337 is acceptable is during live video game chats and mobile to mobile messaging because the settings there are as informal as humanly possible. No, I’m talking about people worrying about proper apostrophe use, the word “alright”, the your-you’re and their-there-they’re types, and if a person splits an infinitive or even down right misspells a simple word. The point is that in informal settings it is totally acceptable to use informal writing and the more informal the setting, the more informal the writing is allowed to be.
Also, don’t blame me for your poor reading comprehension. What I wrote regarding the population in this forum could not have been written more explicitly and my paragraph usage is fine. Stop looking for excuses. Your lack of reading comprehension has revealed your true IQ, which should be especially embarrassing for you since that is what people in this forum like to judge themselves by. Don’t attack if you don’t want to be attacked.
Also, don’t blame me for your poor reading comprehension. What I wrote regarding the population in this forum could not have been written more explicitly and my paragraph usage is fine. Stop looking for excuses. Your lack of reading comprehension has revealed your true IQ, which should be especially embarrassing for you since that is what people in this forum like to judge themselves by. Don’t attack if you don’t want to be attacked.
“If you are comparing the writing that happens in this forum with the writing that happens in 99% of other forums on the net then your world is sadly insular.”
No offence, Josh, but 99% of the net contains really bad writing.
As for alright/all right: Good writing is always situationally appropriate writing (as Rachel pointed out previously). So if editors don’t want you to use ‘alright’, then don’t use it. It doesn’t mean that ‘all right’ is correct and ‘alright’ is wrong; it just means that ‘alright’ is inappropriate when submitting work to an editor.
Josh, your defensiveness is getting more troll-like by the minute. Please take your tone down a couple of notches and keep it civil.
First off, I don’t think you have grasped of the difference between formal and informal writing. Traditionally, informal writing simply allows for a more casual and familiar tone and the use of slang. Sentence and paragraph structure may be looser, but the rules of grammar and proper spelling still apply. No one is going to have a hissy fit over the occasional typo; this isn’t for peer review, after all. But informal writing is not a licence for lazy writing.
When I’m reading forum discussions, I usually skip comments that are riddled with spelling and grammar errors, or long diatribes that have not been broken down into paragraphs. My feeling is that if you can’t be bothered to properly organize your thoughts, you probably didn’t have much to contribute to the discussion anyway. I’m not going to waste my time trying to parse what you meant to say. I afford your writing the same respect that you give to it.
Ah, but then it turns out you do have some standards after all. Their/they’re/there and your/you’re distinctions are a waste of time. Apostophe cops can go to hell. Spelling is for chumps.
But 1337 is beyond the pale.
What happened to your arguments for the natural evolution of language? Haven’t the blessed masses spoken? Or are your “rules” of informal writing only tailored to your weaknesses?
Josh, your defensiveness is getting more troll-like by the minute. Please take your tone down a couple of notches and keep it civil.
First off, I don’t think you have grasped of the difference between formal and informal writing. Traditionally, informal writing simply allows for a more casual and familiar tone and the use of slang. Sentence and paragraph structure may be looser, but the rules of grammar and proper spelling still apply. No one is going to have a hissy fit over the occasional typo; this isn’t for peer review, after all. But informal writing is not a licence for lazy writing.
When I’m reading forum discussions, I usually skip comments that are riddled with spelling and grammar errors, or long diatribes that have not been broken down into paragraphs. My feeling is that if you can’t be bothered to properly organize your thoughts, you probably didn’t have much to contribute to the discussion anyway. I’m not going to waste my time trying to parse what you meant to say. I afford your writing the same respect that you give to it.
Ah, but then it turns out you do have some standards after all. Their/they’re/there and your/you’re distinctions are a waste of time. Apostophe cops can go to hell. Spelling is for chumps.
But 1337 is beyond the pale.
What happened to your arguments for the natural evolution of language? Haven’t the blessed masses spoken? Or are your “rules” of informal writing only tailored to your weaknesses?
Naturally, I had a typo: Apostophe.
Naturally, I had a typo: Apostophe.
Well then we agree on certain points, which is good, but we still disagree on others. To me, informal means all the language rules are relaxed, not some of them. In answer to your argument my response is that if 1337 were every to meet the criteria that I set forth, then I would accept it as part of the evolution of the language. 1337 is light years from crossing that threshold.
You don’t have to worry about me trolling. I am not a regular here and will probably not be back after this thread is concluded.
Nothing stirs up a discussion forum like an argument over grammar, spelling or punctuation. I’ve seen this on mailing lists that I’m a member of, and it probably flares up about once a year and then goes away after everyone has had their say, until someone’s tolerance threshold is reached again.
I agree with a point made earlier that I start to skip over posts from people who consistently fail to punctuate, capitalise and/or make the effort to spell properly. Of course we all make typos from time to time, but it’s obvious when somebody has tried to get things right.
A pet hate of mine (and I was disappointed to see the wrong winner on googlefight) is people writing “would of” when they mean “would have”. Also, don’t get me started on the ubiquitous misuse of the poor old apostrophe.
Nothing stirs up a discussion forum like an argument over grammar, spelling or punctuation. I’ve seen this on mailing lists that I’m a member of, and it probably flares up about once a year and then goes away after everyone has had their say, until someone’s tolerance threshold is reached again.
I agree with a point made earlier that I start to skip over posts from people who consistently fail to punctuate, capitalise and/or make the effort to spell properly. Of course we all make typos from time to time, but it’s obvious when somebody has tried to get things right.
A pet hate of mine (and I was disappointed to see the wrong winner on googlefight) is people writing “would of” when they mean “would have”. Also, don’t get me started on the ubiquitous misuse of the poor old apostrophe.
Colin, if you actually put in the quotes, “would have” beats out “would of” in the Googlefight (216 million to 3.38 million). So you can rest easy that Livejournal hasn’t destroyed the english language YET. :)
I, too, have a tendency to skip over forum posts/blog comments/etc from folk that don’t punctuate, spell, or paragraphate (is there a word for splitting into paragraphs? Is it just “to paragraph”?) correctly.
And Josh, sorry, but at LEAST one of your comments fits into the “break that up into multiple paragraphs, for the love of god” category (the one at 9:57 on the 13th).
Yes, it’s true, I tried to put in paragraphs with the return key and I did not notice that they were not being registered in the preview. However, the post that had the comment in question is an acceptable, if not great, use of paragraph.
Yes, it’s true, I tried to put in paragraphs with the return key and I did not notice that they were not being registered in the preview. However, the post that had the comment in question is an acceptable, if not great, use of paragraph.
i think you wrong on commas
scroll to ‘Beware of popular myths of comma usage’
http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/commas.html
Ryan, thanks for pointing out my mistake when using Googlefight. I had seen “would of” and “should of” in so many places that I took the depressing results at face value. You have restored (a little of) my faith in my fellow humans’ ability to know what’s right and what’s plainly wrong.
Ryan, thanks for pointing out my mistake when using Googlefight. I had seen “would of” and “should of” in so many places that I took the depressing results at face value. You have restored (a little of) my faith in my fellow humans’ ability to know what’s right and what’s plainly wrong.
Josh:
“My opinion, if you want to be a better writer or editor, should be listened to and seriously considered, not just shunned out of hand.”
No, not really, as what you appear to be arguing for is that the stewardship of the language rests entirely on the masses, which is false on its face. English (thankfully) does not have an official academy, like French and German, but it does have a predominant class of users (primarily, writers and editors) who have given it a certain amount of structure and consistency over time. Of course the language changes, both in popular and in “official” usage, but the changes generally have to justify themselves in terms of practical usage. Most editors don’t seem to approve of “alright” — I don’t — so its status seems unlikely to improve any time soon.
Josh, your arguments boil down to “50 million Elvis fans can’t be wrong.” Well, actually, they can. 50 million people spelling “all right” as “alright” can be spelling it poorly, when it comes from the perspective of writing well.
As it happens, the entry to which these comments are appended is about what it takes to write well (while still not doing all that much work), and since I have 15 years of combined professional writing and editing experience and you apparently don’t, I have more credibility than you when discussing whether “alright” is all right. Perhaps you think that’s not quite fair, but I’m hardly concerned about that.
Now, if you want to continue to use “alright,” don’t let me stop you. I’m not your dad. But I don’t suggest anyone else use it when they’re trying to write well, because it’s wrong.
Stephen:
“John, why don’t you admit that you just don’t like the word and fall back on your, ‘I don’t have to have a good reason because this is my Web site’ defense?”
Well, you know. Just because a word is in the dictionary doesn’t mean it’s acceptable usage. “Ain’t” is in the dictionary too, and outside specialized uses (similar to “alright”) you don’t see it in well-written English either.
As for “alright” being regularly used in edited publications, as the m-w suggests, I haven’t seen it. “All right” is standard in both AP and Chicago style guides, which the vast majority of professional copy editors use (and off which other style guides are spun off). I’d believe it was used by the Chicago Tribune in its “simplified English” days, but those days are long gone.
So, no, in fact, it’s not that I just don’t like it. Chicago and AP don’t like it either, and I’m following their lead. Take it up with them; if you can convince them, maybe I’ll listen.
Josh:
“My opinion, if you want to be a better writer or editor, should be listened to and seriously considered, not just shunned out of hand.”
No, not really, as what you appear to be arguing for is that the stewardship of the language rests entirely on the masses, which is false on its face. English (thankfully) does not have an official academy, like French and German, but it does have a predominant class of users (primarily, writers and editors) who have given it a certain amount of structure and consistency over time. Of course the language changes, both in popular and in “official” usage, but the changes generally have to justify themselves in terms of practical usage. Most editors don’t seem to approve of “alright” — I don’t — so its status seems unlikely to improve any time soon.
Josh, your arguments boil down to “50 million Elvis fans can’t be wrong.” Well, actually, they can. 50 million people spelling “all right” as “alright” can be spelling it poorly, when it comes from the perspective of writing well.
As it happens, the entry to which these comments are appended is about what it takes to write well (while still not doing all that much work), and since I have 15 years of combined professional writing and editing experience and you apparently don’t, I have more credibility than you when discussing whether “alright” is all right. Perhaps you think that’s not quite fair, but I’m hardly concerned about that.
Now, if you want to continue to use “alright,” don’t let me stop you. I’m not your dad. But I don’t suggest anyone else use it when they’re trying to write well, because it’s wrong.
Stephen:
“John, why don’t you admit that you just don’t like the word and fall back on your, ‘I don’t have to have a good reason because this is my Web site’ defense?”
Well, you know. Just because a word is in the dictionary doesn’t mean it’s acceptable usage. “Ain’t” is in the dictionary too, and outside specialized uses (similar to “alright”) you don’t see it in well-written English either.
As for “alright” being regularly used in edited publications, as the m-w suggests, I haven’t seen it. “All right” is standard in both AP and Chicago style guides, which the vast majority of professional copy editors use (and off which other style guides are spun off). I’d believe it was used by the Chicago Tribune in its “simplified English” days, but those days are long gone.
So, no, in fact, it’s not that I just don’t like it. Chicago and AP don’t like it either, and I’m following their lead. Take it up with them; if you can convince them, maybe I’ll listen.
Josh asks why “alright” (or “allright”) is considered unacceptable when “cannot” and “everywhere” are fine. The answer is “because English isn’t consistent.” Any argument after that point is pissing into the wind. I’ll also note that “every where” is never used, and most style guides prefer “cannot” to “can not.”
Josh, your point about “any more” and “anymore” is particularly poor — they don’t mean the same thing at all. You cannot exchange them in the sentences “No, thank you, I don’t want any more Brussels sprouts” and “Why don’t people eat Brussels sprouts anymore?”
Finally, you keep ranting about how most people can’t keep all the rules straight. Go look at the title of this post; it’s not MEANT for most people. It’s meant for writers and those who want to be writers. John’s advice is utterly correct, because I don’t know a single editor (and I know many) who would allow “alright” to stand in a manuscript for publication.
Josh asks why “alright” (or “allright”) is considered unacceptable when “cannot” and “everywhere” are fine. The answer is “because English isn’t consistent.” Any argument after that point is pissing into the wind. I’ll also note that “every where” is never used, and most style guides prefer “cannot” to “can not.”
Josh, your point about “any more” and “anymore” is particularly poor — they don’t mean the same thing at all. You cannot exchange them in the sentences “No, thank you, I don’t want any more Brussels sprouts” and “Why don’t people eat Brussels sprouts anymore?”
Finally, you keep ranting about how most people can’t keep all the rules straight. Go look at the title of this post; it’s not MEANT for most people. It’s meant for writers and those who want to be writers. John’s advice is utterly correct, because I don’t know a single editor (and I know many) who would allow “alright” to stand in a manuscript for publication.
Josh, I fully accept the argument that in informal writing the rules of grammar can be relaxed.
However I thought that ‘there’, ‘their’, and ‘they’re’ are different words, like three and free. Sure they sound similar, but they have different meanings and so are not so much a ‘grammatical mistake’ as simply ‘a mistake’.
Eaun’s comment about the word ‘alright’ is spot on. The whole argument was much ado about nothing.
Andrew Hackard:
“It’s meant for writers and those who want to be writers.”
Er, well, it’s actually specifically for non-writers who want to write well. But the point stands — it’s aimed at people who want their writing to look good. If you don’t particularly care if your writing approaches a professional standard, you don’t have to follow any of it. The world will not collapse if you don’t follow my advice. Although I will be very, very disappointed.
Agreed that the “alright/all right” argument has gone about as far as it’s going to go in terms of being useful.
Try reading “Eats, Shoots and Leaves” by Lynne Truss. It’s been helpful and entertaining to my husband who is hard at work on his first book.
As someone who writes for a living and for fun, I’ve found that reading other writers is essential to developing a personal style and for growth as a writer.
As for grammar texts and how-to’s, I’ve found that the time to read them is not when you need them (although when you need them — read them). Thus, I suggest looking for texts that make decent bathroom reading. Strunk and White is good for this as are Karen Gordon’s The New Well-Tempered Sentence and The Deluxe Transitive Vampire.
For those for whom English is a second language, I suggest Samuel Johnson’s Grammar of the English Tongue. This is available for free at Project Gutenberg. It may be 200 years old or so, but it’s still useful even for native English speakers.
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/15097
I would like to interject a small note about the word “alright,” if I may.
I use the word, myself. I have never considered it to be improperly spelled. I do consider it to be a colloquialism, much like the word “okay,” and would not use it in formal writing.
I will, however, use it in everyday speech and writing. It is a part of my writing voice, and it does have a distict character apart from the meaning of the words “all right.”
Alright?
Die, infidel Michael Hopwood, die!
Certainly, I think colloquial use is fine; Lord knows I have colloquialisms I use as well, which I wouldn’t use in more formal writing. I think it is useful to make the distinction as to when it’s appropriate to use.
Die, infidel Michael Hopwood, die!
Certainly, I think colloquial use is fine; Lord knows I have colloquialisms I use as well, which I wouldn’t use in more formal writing. I think it is useful to make the distinction as to when it’s appropriate to use.
John, I stand corrected. My apologies. I loved the article, no matter for whom it was written.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post! I am an English tutor, and was having this exact conversation with two of my SAT students yesterday. They are struggling with grammar rules, and since usage has now been put on the SAT, they (and I) wish that school teachers emphasized grammar rules more. One girl’s teacher never corrected her incorrect use of who/whom, or substituting “their” for “his.” The majority of my students have no idea how to tackle the usage section due to lack of grammar lessons in schools. It rests on my shoulders, and those of my colleagues, to get our students a good score. I’m starting early with my elementary-school-aged students.
My three biggest pet peeves in writing: the aforementioned use of “their” instead of “his,” even for the purposes of political correctness (”their” is plural,” “his” is singular!!!); the addition of apostrophes where they don’t belong (see: “CD’s for Sale!”); and “could of/should/of/would of.” The latter is a definite 10-point IQ dropper.
I’m printing this list out, enlarging it, and pinning it to my wall.
And a side note: Besides Strunk and White, I refer to “Eats, Shoots and Leaves” for some punctuation rules; it’s British grammar (hence the omission of the comma before “and”), but most of the rules hold up. And it’s fun to read.